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| jd820 | Posted 07/31/12 10:35PM  Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | i bred ewe lambs last yr they lambed end of april til mid may i am havin an impossible time putting weight back on them they have been wormed with 2 different types of wormer and eating around 3 pounds of grain a day plus hay i learned a lesson the hard way dont bred them but need help fixing them
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| SHADOWRAN | Posted 07/31/12 11:36PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
|  | I fine this typical with ewe lambs I give them time and most of the them come back better.
jim
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| jd820 | Posted 07/31/12 11:41PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | the problem is i am wanting to show them in a few weeks but dont think it will happen from being under weight
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| EmsoffLambs | Posted 08/01/12 12:26AM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
|  | I breed my ewe lambs every year. It requires a full management plan that involves growing them to well early on, without getting them too fat, while at the same time providing enough roughage to allow them to produce on a forage based diet later on. Next you have to keep them in proper condition and still growing through gestation. Then, when they lamb, you have to really feed them well to keep them from loosing too much condition during lactation. I think this is where a lot of people mess up. They keep them with the older ewes while they're raising their lambs and they (1) get pushed away from the feeder by the bigger, more aggressive aged ewes and (2) do not receive adequate nutrition to both raise their lambs and continue growing.
With all this said, if you're hoping to show the ewes in a few weeks and they're thin, it's not likely they'll gain their condition back in time. It takes a long time, as in several months.
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| hmm | Posted 08/01/12 08:20AM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | should have thought about the problem before now.
the biggest ewes on this place, have all lambed as yearlings- but I poor the feed to them from weaning until they hit 2 years old.
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| jd820 | Posted 08/01/12 09:54PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | yeah lesson learned never bred lambs before now i know but is the amount of feed they need worth breeding them at that age as in when selling the lambs does it cover the extra feed needed?
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| EmsoffLambs | Posted 08/02/12 12:17AM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | I don't think that's the point, to never breed ewe lambs. I'd be willing to bet than 80-90% of the breeders on this site breed their ewe lambs. The key is to feed them well throughout. And yeah, I think the extra feed covers the cost of the lamb. Depending on the ration you're using, you're paying maybe 50% more for feed, but you're getting a lamb out of the deal. Figure on maybe 2 lbs of grain per day for the 7 months of production. So you're looking at maybe $120 cost for her to raise a lamb versus just growing/maintaining for a year. If she's a halfway decent ewe, her lamb should be worth a lot more than $120. Plus research shows that their lifetime production, even without the first lamb considered, will be higher if she's bred to lamb as a yearling.
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| bigiron59 | Posted 08/02/12 09:19AM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
|  | hmm is correct this time. ewe lambs bred to lamb at 12 to 14 months , need to be managed as a group by them selves until they are ready to lamb the second time, if you want them push them to top production levals. But the good news is that most of us have some older geriatric gals that need some extra groceries, so they can be in this gruop as well.So you will have 3 gruops. Ewe lambs lambing as 12 to 14 months. 2 yr olds and grannie ewes, and the rest of your flock. If your 2 year olds are very fleshy put them in with your old ewes, if your 2 year old and grannies are thin , put them in with your ewe lambs. Right now, we are dry lot, so have 2 gruops. thin ole ewes, 2 or 3 of thinner 2 year old, and all ewe lambs in 1 pen, and all the rest in another. 1 pen of ram lambs, and 1 pen of mature rams. 1 pen of lambs from april lambing gruop on feed. 159 head of sheep here . all feed is processed here from ingredients, (roughage, corn , soyhulls, ddgs, premixes, ect) Total prep and feeding time averages about 30 to 40 minutes a day. Feeder lambs are on self feeder. ewe lambs with thin ewes on self feeder, mature ewes on TMR ration fed daily,Rams are had fed daily.
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| hmm | Posted 08/02/12 11:39AM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | most people are afraid to put an old grandma ewe in with the 2 or 3 month old lambs, or even a thin yearling for that matter...
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| Sheepherder007 | Posted 08/02/12 12:03PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
|  | MOST  ??
And where did you come up with that bit of wisdom?
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| califmom | Posted 08/02/12 12:38PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
|  | That is a head scratcher for sure...
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| Cullen | Posted 08/02/12 12:57PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | jd820... If your first timers (12-14 month old ewes) are on pasture following weaning that is also when they are growing/getting their first permanent teeth. The temporary loss of the two front teeth makes it harder for them adequately forage.
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| EmsoffLambs | Posted 08/02/12 01:03PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | I do similar to Bigiron. The thinnest older ewes get moved in with the ewe lambs on better feed about a month or so before breeding (only one of these this year). So not 2-3 month old ewe lambs but 5-6 months old. I will sort off the thins and flush them a little heavier 2-3 weeks before breeding. During breeding, all ewes are sorted based on what ram they'll be bred to and fed a flushing ration. After breeding, thins are again sorted off and fed extra as long as necessary to get them back into good condition.
After lambing, I split ewes based on the number of lambs they're raising: singles or twins. Yearlings almost always have a single, so they are fed with the twin group and get extra feed that way. The occasional yearling that does twin (I normally have about one a year) is fed in the twin group too. She will lose more weight, but is fed extra in the thin group before breeding the following year.
This has worked pretty well for me the last couple years and allows me to feed just two or three pens of sheep, which works for my facilities. So yeah, I have an old grandma ewe in with my ewe lambs and they're all doing just fine.
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| hmm | Posted 08/02/12 03:09PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | my only 10 year old ewe is with my ewe lambs right now too...
I've got another 10 ewes that are 7-9 years old- but they're still holding their own with the middle aged ewes.
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| Chuckles450 | Posted 08/02/12 05:52PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
|  | I had no clue not breeding ewe lambs could hurt their production later on. Lambing ewe lambs here in feb/march is brutal (-15 to -30 at night). We breed for late November, early December lambs. They're obviously too small to try to get bred up for early lambs.
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| bigiron59 | Posted 08/02/12 06:07PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | join the rest of us nothern lambers. I have a heated barn. some years never see above zero during the day at lambing time. Kinda nice to work in a heated barn. allthough the the lambs after a few days opld are like kids. they all want to go outside to play, and play until they are shivering, then they run inside to warm up.
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| Chuckles450 | Posted 08/02/12 08:29PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | I'm not so lucky. Part of why we breed early. Does waiting to breed them seriously hurt their later production? Or is it just a few % points that might even out in the long run?
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| bigiron59 | Posted 08/02/12 11:06PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | Depends on how you measure produtivity. Typical midwest ops look at number of lambs born per ewe. and the guys that drop 225 to 250 will get more lamb lambing ewe lambs. However most of them will have very few 6 to 8 year old ewes left as all have been culled. Some though the last cuople of years have been to selecting ewes that are optimized for your management system. That might not be that 250 percent lambing ewe, but may indeed be a 180 lambing ewe that you can keep productive until 8 to 20 years or more. Since you have less ewe lambs in your flock, you have more to sell and profit may indeed be more than a 2225 droping ewe flock with a much higher cull rate. You have to decide what in more productive in your system.
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| jd820 | Posted 08/02/12 11:59PM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | what you all said make sense but how i am limited to pen space and many other unwanted factors i think at this point and time i am not breeding my ewe lambs til i buy my own farm and dont have to follow other peoples rules but the ewes i cant get the weight back on lambed when they just turned 11 months
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| DonD1 | Posted 08/03/12 12:39AM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
|  | Jd820,
There are sound reasons not to lamb ewe lambs including, lack of pen space to feed them better than older ewes. So, if it doesn't work for you don't lamb them.
To address Chuckles question above, Here's a link from Montana on white face ewe lambs. It states lifetime productivity of a ewe can increase as much as 15-20% if the ewe lambs as a ewe lamb. Our experience is even if you treat the ewe lamb lambs as throw away, they ewe produces the rest of her life better. From a genetic standpoint your ewe lambs should represent the most improved ewes in your flock and you can achieve selection goals faster by lambing ewe lambs.
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| Chuckles450 | Posted 08/03/12 09:40AM Changed 00/00/00 12:00AM |
| | Thanks Bigiron and Don. I'm going to have to take a serious look at the situation and go over this new info with the team. They hate lambing ewe lambs, but it seems it might be a good option. I really appreciate the willingness to share your knowledge.
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